1. Eq2 Traders Corner
2. Eq2 Harvest Bot

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The reason they don't want it up as they can never get rid of that program. This is nothing against the EQ devs, but without violating some major user privacy they'll never be able to get rid of stuff like that.

Even if they start secretly trying to detect this (which they do every so many patches, it'll snoop for other programs loaded if you watch it's api calls), the first time someone gets banned the people who make these programs fight back, and make it undetectable once again until next patch. So, this means while users are getting banned for using this stuff and can't really cry about it to Sony, it is a small percentage.

The people who do this program you posted are really, really good and I'm 100% sure they'd be able to bypass anything the EQ devs throw at them, including lawsuits from EQ1 days. That being said, this is why it isn't allowed on the EQ board. It's not going away and they know it You posting it is just advertising for them. Now, how do I know all this? Well I'm a programmer by trade and enjoy the low level stuff (ie non-gui) and a little google research on the program's roots let me find out more. SoE cannot make it impossible for bots to exist and function. It just isn't a realistic goal.

I'm not exactly up on the latest gamepads and related devices, since I don't really like using them, but I'm confident you could find a good programmable one that would handle stuff internally and be completely transparent to software. Even without that, programmers have all sorts of tricks to hide their software macro programs, from things as simple as blank or misleading titlebar names up to and including reverse engineering the EQ client program and modifying it to suit their purposes. If SoE really wants to crack down on the macroers, what they have to do is get the GMs out talking to people exhibiting suspicious behavior, and see how they respond. Back in EQLive, SoE tried to crack down on third party programs by essentialy having spyware inform them that a third party program was in use.

This is essentialy the only way to effectively control abuse through third party software. Needless to say, this did not go down well with the community and SoE had to back out of that idea and promise never to do it again.

Unfortunately, this means that you are stuck with these bots. There is very little SoE can do on the serverside to counter bots.

Even with a full time staff of GMs trying to track it down they can't prove anything without access to private information on the client PC which they have promised not to look. Even with GMs catching bots is not fool proof. There are many false possitives. I have actualy met people in Fan Faire that have been accused of botting when they where sitting there foraging.

Unless you are willing to let SoE poke around in your PC and trust me there will be heavy opposition to that or you are willing to pay extra for full time staff hunting bots, there isn't much that can be done about this situation. That's not entirely true.

If GM's patrolled the tradeskill instances and looked specifically for odd behavior, queried the suspects and pending non-response or general fishiness banned the account, the word would get out. The macro community does communicate within itself. Sony does not have to have a reason to ban someone. When unattended macro crafters start getting nailed, the more conservative cheaters will be inclined to change their habits.

GM's are incredibly busy, but there are devs and GM's who don't necessarily spend all of their time in the ticket queue and spend time out and about in the world looking for issues that need to be addressed. It's a matter of will, not ability. Its all a conspiracy I tell you!!

Seriously tho, the best way to get the bots would be to /petition while in game and actually get hold of a GM while in game. (I have not done this before so I am not sure if it works the same way as EQ1.) That way, the GM can sit and watch the alleged bot and note the movements/habits. I didnt read all the posts, but I am guessing youre talking about a tradeskill macro since this is a tradeskill forum. I have some experience with macros after playing games like Asheron's Call and Shadowbane.

That being said, I know they are set on a timer and follow the EXACT pattern. This means after the crafting process, it will be the EXACT time before a new process starts. Also, before report/petitioning, you may want to investigate yourself.

Send them a tell stating you believe they are a bot and are looking for a response from them. See if they respond with some generic response (yes, macro programs can do this) or if it sounds like a real response. Downside to this is, alot of times when I macro, i have my chat windows covered up by inv and the tradeskill forge/loom/whatever. I also get into a 'groove' of sorts to where Im sure I could look like a bot as well. (My buddy told me this one night when he called to find out where i got my program from.

He was heart-broken when I told him it was just me hehe) Also, keep in mind that macro programs are very advanced and the right people could make them do whatever they wanted. Example: In Shadowbane, there was a way to stand on top of a building and nuke mobs below you.

You get a group, set an AoE spell, set time for mana regen, and viola! You got yourself some mad exp macro. Problem is SB is open PvP everywhere. Anyone could roll up on you, view your actions and get the timing down to come in and whipe out your party during the mana regen period. Ways we got around this?

We had seperate macros for each character that would move us from location X to location X+5 feet, then return us over and over again. Also, had random chat in the /say chat. (It would repeat itself every 2 hours) This way, any PvPers would think we were actually sitting at the PC. Also, had someone on a seperate AoE character nuking during downtime.

(Not always reliable due to timing reasons) With that being said, I do not condone the use of Macro Programs in EQ2. Only reason I did it in SB was because I was playin EQ1 and ONLY played SB when we had Banes on other towns. In short, I did not care if my SB account was suspended or banned, but i do care about my EQ2 account. The purpose of the story was only to show you the things macro programs are capable of doing. Also, be VER certain before reporting someone for a macro/bot.

If they do like I do and craft while watching tv with no speakers on, they may miss any tells from a GM or yourself. Easy way to kill macoring and boting in EQ 2 Trading. Make EVERY SINGLE NEGATIVE EVENT have a significant consequence if left uncountered. I hav enever heard of a person being botted as a smith of any kind.

Because the forge can kill. No other trade I know of does that and as such botting them is easy, even out of power. The same CANNOT be said for smithing. If the other trade skills had the same negative possibility, either PC dead or regular item destruction if counters are not used, botting would be a thing of the past. I have never understood the reasoning of having events pop up to be coutnered if 75% of them don't DO anything bad if they are not. I rarely reply to tells while crafting - I'm too busy aiming for pristine.

If I don't turn off enough spam, I might not even SEE the tells. I also frequently read a book while crafting - when I don't care about pristines. I might pay enough attention to the screen to counter events, or I may just let them happen. Dangerous on the forge, but pretty safe on everything else. So some of the methods you guys are proposing to detect botters wouldn't work. Also, how are you (as players) supposed to detect suspiscious behavior while crafting?

You don't know what someone's making. If they're ignoring events, it could be because it's a bad bot, a bad player, or just someone who is half-AFK during the crafting process.

I also think you guys are all up in arms about something that doesn't really affect you, unless you're all concerned about being the top TSer on your server or something like that. While I don't like people cheating, and I imagine these cheaters can flood the market with goods, I personally haven't seen that happen - at least not that I can tell. I don't think people are going to flood the market with bot-made goods because I doubt the bots are very good at making pristine. So they might level up more quickly than fair.

But ultimately, they have to live with themselves. I wouldn't want to be the sort of person who would enjoy cheating in this fashion, so I'm happy with where I am and refuse to let these folks get me all in a tizzy.

Easy way to kill macoring and boting in EQ 2 Trading. Make EVERY SINGLE NEGATIVE EVENT have a significant consequence if left uncountered. I hav enever heard of a person being botted as a smith of any kind. Because the forge can kill. No other trade I know of does that and as such botting them is easy, even out of power. The same CANNOT be said for smithing.

If the other trade skills had the same negative possibility, either PC dead or regular item destruction if counters are not used, botting would be a thing of the past. I have never understood the reasoning of having events pop up to be coutnered if 75% of them don't DO anything bad if they are not. I agree with you Gil, but the prob is, many of the macro programs out there can counter better than if you were sitting there doing it yourself. They go based off of color recognition most of the time and as soon as the color pops up, the counter flag goes.

I have sat in front of my PC and crafted and missed plenty of events because Ill be chatting or watching tv. With my exp in past games, it would not be diff to make a program to counter the events without fail, as well as the ability to stop to recover power/health if needed. So some of the methods you guys are proposing to detect botters wouldn't work. Also, how are you (as players) supposed to detect suspiscious behavior while crafting? You don't know what someone's making. If they're ignoring events, it could be because it's a bad bot, a bad player, or just someone who is half-AFK during the crafting process. I also think you guys are all up in arms about something that doesn't really affect you, unless you're all concerned about being the top TSer on your server or something like that.

While I don't like people cheating, and I imagine these cheaters can flood the market with goods, I personally haven't seen that happen - at least not that I can tell. I don't think people are going to flood the market with bot-made goods because I doubt the bots are very good at making pristine. So they might level up more quickly than fair. But ultimately, they have to live with themselves. I wouldn't want to be the sort of person who would enjoy cheating in this fashion, so I'm happy with where I am and refuse to let these folks get me all in a tizzy.

To address your first point here; Detecting Bot Activities. If you notice some people will get hit with the same thing everytime. Soandso gets hit by whitehot metal.

If you notice this repeatedly, thats when you can start observing their behaviors. Also, to address the issue of this not affecting us. It most certainly does.

What do you think these people are doing with the hundreds of items they are creating. Flooding the market. Which also drives the prices way down.

I will say this tho. The smart people would only macro subcomponents and not final products so that they can control their pristine quality.

So this means things like washes, oils, spikes, patterns, papers, etc that are subcomponents but in high demand, will have their prices drop dramaticly. But now that you get your subs at lower cost, it would only make since that the community would start demanding lower prices on the final products you make using the cheaper products. It will eventually bite us all in the buttocks. Yeah, anytime you have a system, like tradeskills, where the 'breaks' on the system is the time you put into it, bots will destroy (or undermine) it. I have no doubt bots can counter events, monitor durability and progress, wait to recover power, add a bit of randomness to the times, etc, which makes them very hard to pick up.

I for one often hit 'buffs' in patterns, repeat quickly, and have my screens covered, but it would be easy to tell I am not a bot as I get bored after about 30 minutes. And I don't manage my inventory well enough not to run out of something. I've sent this in as feedback, but who knows if someone will read it that will bring it to the attention of a dev that thinks it is a good idea. While a very good bot programmer may be able to counter it, it would be hard, and since it would be an obvious anti-bot move, talking about it won't help them out.

My bot busting suggestion: Make a non-counterable event called 'knock back' that tosses you from the machine, does not hurt you, does not cost a component, and only occures right at the start or end (after you make the item) as not to upset ligit players who don't want their progress towards a pristine ruined. Make it occur, maybe once every 50 times (random, maybe even more often). It would work like shadow step, or blink, it would teleport (throw) you char randomly away from the machine, not inside a wall, etc. A bot would have to figure out how to navigate back to the machine, reselect it, and get to the correct recipe. What would be a very minor annoyance for a human would be a major pain in the. You're going to hang out, watching a pattern for who is getting hit by a particular event.

Then you're going to send a tell to see if they respond. If they don't, you figure they're a bot?

I think your theories are still flawed on both sides. People who don't counter any events will get nailed. People who have a pattern to how they cast buffs will only get caught by some events. And the sample size you would need is a lot larger than I want to sit around watching to see if someone is cheating.

Also on some machines, the icons for the some of the events look similar, and it can be easy to screw up and hit the wrong counter. Cooking has two that look similar, and I always have to look more closely to tell which one it is. There's also one when refining metal bars where the differences are sorta small. Easy to mess up when you're not paying enough attention.

But let's say you suspect someone of being a bot, and you send a tell. That means absolutely positively nothing.He may have missed the tell in spam, when his back was turned, while reading a book, etc -He may not respond while crafting then forget he got a tell and go back and look -He may decide that whatever you said wasn't worth his trouble -He may not speak English -He may not even read (I knew of a cleric in EQ1 who was 3 or 4 years old, he played with his parents, all in the same room, and his folks said he was actually pretty good) So let's say you send him another tell with no response. You could still have any of the above. Or he may be medding up from trying to hit pristine on the last combine, and went to raid the fridge.

No need to go on. You get the idea.

The idea that you can tell someone is probably a bot because they get hit by events is seriously flawed. So is the theory that anyone who fails to respond to you is a bot. The only way to tell it's a bot is if SOE creates some program that figures out someone is botting. Or they admit it.

Good ideas dog, but it is ver possible because you can put actual coords in the macro itself. /goto X,Z or something similar. Also, as far as targetting the machine again the TAB key works for that. That being said, it would also be very possible to run the macro that each time you create X items, to run to vendor, stand there, then run back to the crafting station. (Im not sure if they would actually be able to sell, but this does make it look like someone is at the wheel.) And yes, you are also able to open doors seeing as the mouse turns to a hand on the doors and you can say /open door when pointer is a hand or something similar. I have said too much, they are listening!!! You're going to hang out, watching a pattern for who is getting hit by a particular event.

Then you're going to send a tell to see if they respond. If they don't, you figure they're a bot?

I think your theories are still flawed on both sides. People who don't counter any events will get nailed. People who have a pattern to how they cast buffs will only get caught by some events. And the sample size you would need is a lot larger than I want to sit around watching to see if someone is cheating. Also on some machines, the icons for the some of the events look similar, and it can be easy to screw up and hit the wrong counter.

Eq2 Traders Corner

Cooking has two that look similar, and I always have to look more closely to tell which one it is. There's also one when refining metal bars where the differences are sorta small. Easy to mess up when you're not paying enough attention. But let's say you suspect someone of being a bot, and you send a tell. That means absolutely positively nothing.He may have missed the tell in spam, when his back was turned, while reading a book, etc -He may not respond while crafting then forget he got a tell and go back and look -He may decide that whatever you said wasn't worth his trouble -He may not speak English -He may not even read (I knew of a cleric in EQ1 who was 3 or 4 years old, he played with his parents, all in the same room, and his folks said he was actually pretty good) So let's say you send him another tell with no response. You could still have any of the above. Or he may be medding up from trying to hit pristine on the last combine, and went to raid the fridge.

No need to go on. You get the idea. The idea that you can tell someone is probably a bot because they get hit by events is seriously flawed.

So is the theory that anyone who fails to respond to you is a bot. The only way to tell it's a bot is if SOE creates some program that figures out someone is botting. Or they admit it. You are only reading parts of my posts Wolfy, as I have stated earlier regarding the events. Quote: Downside to this is, alot of times when I macro, i have my chat windows covered up by inv and the tradeskill forge/loom/whatever. I also get into a 'groove' of sorts to where Im sure I could look like a bot as well. (My buddy told me this one night when he called to find out where i got my program from.

He was heart-broken when I told him it was just me hehe) You can view this as fence-straddling if you wish, I am just pointing out the flaws in reporting someone for botting. You seriously cannot do it yourself. So if you /petition and a GM comes down, views their actions, they can then do whatever they need to on server side to look at actual stats and times. I am not saying it is as simple as viewing their movements and actions (i went over these methods in my posts) as they can be completely randome. HOWEVER, their will be a definate set time in their loop.

All macros run off of a loop that is the exact same each time. Someone that is sitting at their PC grinding out interims will not have an exact time on their 'loop' because we are not perfect.

There is no set way for any of us to detect a bot, thats why I said only way to do it would be to /petition or /report them. Let the GMs handle it on server side.

Quote: All macros will run off a loop that is the exact same each time Hmm. If I make a game macro for tradeskilling, and I hit the Run Macro button, I'm using the macroing facility that SOE provided, and I feel I'm perfectly legal in what I'm doing. But it will NOT run the exact same each time because of internet delays and other variances. Furthermore, I don't think it's this level of macroing you're looking for.

Nor are you looking for guys with a macroing gamepad. You're looking for the real bots - programs that run the entire crafting process for you. This isn't just a macro. And how some random bot program works is up to the programmer - including whether he inserts small random delays in the system specficially to guard against detection by the exact-same-each-run rule. I'm sure that sort of thing would add a good 10 minutes to the time spent producing a pretty complex program. In any case, I think the criteria you guys are using to cry 'bot' is flawed, and I think anyone who petitions based on these criteria should MYOB.

SOE GMs have better things to do, and I know I'd be REALLY pissed off if my account were suspended because I didn't answer a tell. If SOE has the ability to detect bots, they don't need us to petition someone who isn't responding to tells, because they can already tell it's a bot. They could have their detecter automatically run any time some basic criteria happens - like someone makes the same thing N times in a row or even just run all the time.

There's nearly no way for anyone to tell if someone is a bot strictly based on in-game interactions with that person. Sure, a really really stupid bot may always reply to a tell in the same fashion. On the other hand, a semi-smart bot will make some beeping noises and alert the gamer that a tell just arrived. Please, let's not engage in witch hunts. I don't want SOE investigating me because I read a book while making resins. Ok, lets look at the fact that the EQ2players site keeps track of who kills what and has a list of the top 10 players with most kills and also lets look at their kill-to-death ratio is perfect.

Also, note they are the same classes on each server. Also note that most of them have goofy names like gghjjs. Does this mean they are botting because they have killed 50,000 more mobs than the highest level charact in the game? Doesnt make much since that they wouldnt be higher in levels, but ok, we will give them that. Does the fact that they have 153,000 total kills and their kill-to-death ratio is 153,000 to 1? Shouldnt be ousted just because you are a perfect character, even tho it is highly unlikely.

These stats are kept by SOE yet they do not detect a pattern? Also, how would they be able to run a server wide, heck, GAME wide snooper looking for macro players based on if they create N amount of items? Who says someone cant grind out N amount of items without having to stop. Basicly, you think I want a witch hunt, I dont. I am only pointing out what macros can do and how difficult it can be to detect one. Scroll back up and read my entire post.

I am shedding light on people that are wanting to find the bots. To detect a bot by observation is not difficult, honeslty. It just takes much practice to find the BASIC ones. It is not worth it to a macroer to design an elaborate macro that will not crank out hundreds of items. So, a pattern would be easy to find.

Again, in case you only read part of my post, I do not want a witch hunt. I am oly sharing information on how macros work.

And you are correct. I am not talking about game-pads or the macro programs provided by SOE. I am talking about the third party programs that do the entire thing for you.

And yes, such a tool does exist for EQ2.EDIT. Just to add.

Quote: But it will NOT run the exact same each time because of internet delays and other variances. It will not take the exact same time to craft the item, you are correct. However, it will take the exact same time in between crafting periods (minus downtime) The downtime can vary based on the events that occured using more/less power than the time before.

But, you are talking about someone doing 100+ combines in one sitting, so it will be very easy for a GM to sit and watch. I dont think a GM would be 'too busy' with other things to monitor this as it is in direct violation of the EULA. You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while in EverQuest II or on the Official EverQuest II Forums. Failure to comply with a CSR request is against the the terms of the EULA.

So a.GM. sends a tell to a player saying something to the effect of 'You are exhibiting suspicious behavior, please respond to this tell.' If you don't respond, then either you're macroing or you're ignoring a GM, either way you get a warning.

(Just a warning-it would take getting caught several times to warrant banning.) Tells can be important. Leave your sound on if possible, because the tell sound is pretty distinctive (at least, I think it is). Also, don't cover up your chat window that receives tells (I know screen real estate is at a premium when tradeskilling, but it's not THAT hard, and you might get tells from customers anyway. ) Now as far as players, you are right that it doesn't mean much. If someone I didn't know sent me a tell 'OMG you're a bot! Quit cheating!' Then, depending on my mood, I might talk with them, or I might just ignore them for being rude.

So not responding to a player doesn't mean much. But not responding to a GM (which is what I'm mostly talking about in this post) is another issue entirely.

If you ignore GMs, you are, as my siste.

. ZAM Coverage Adventuring. 90+. 90+ (contested Heroic; instanced Solo/Heroic/Raid) Crafting. 90+. We recommend that you also hop over to EQ2 Traders to check out!

Zones. includes labeled zone map, travel info and more!. Images. Patch Notes The Destiny of Velious saga continues as adventurers breach the barriers of the Withered Lands seeking entrance to Skyshrine, the glorious ancient dragon city! The great citadel of Skyshrine has long housed the Claws of Veeshan dragons behind its massive walls and arcane protections. Now, the unthinkable has happened - it has become besieged by powerful forces.

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Eq2 Harvest Bot

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